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General Questions about Biplanes

 
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RW_Black_one



Joined: 16 Sep 2007
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 9:47 pm    Post subject: General Questions about Biplanes Reply with quote

Hi,

I want to build an aerobatic biplane and I still don't know what is the best for me.
I live in Germany so I got some problems you maybe don't have:

The price for AVGAS is about 11,20 USD/g... (5g/h = 56 $)
We got metric system, so ...
A lot of things are more cheap in US
....

So the engine must not be big, because I still got any chance to win against Yaks or SU, Extra etc., even if I got 300+HP... I decide something between 100-180 HP and the price for fuel,...

G-Load must be something between +/- 7-9 G's, because in the papers I will have +/- 4,5-6 G. Germans LBA cut off your loading.(G/1.5=Gmax) And european EASA want to see ... if you want to put the plane in the "aerobatic" catagory.

I need two seats, because of my wife, because she thinks it's a good idea, ...

I think it is a good idea to build it in steel/plywood...

At first (when I was young...) I decide to build a S 2E, but I look for plans now for 3 month and don't find somebody who offers them.

So far, if you got an idea, please reply.

Best Regards

RW_Black_one
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flinthillsjim



Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 55
Location: Kansas, Chapman (8KS8)

PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RW -
Tough choices to make and everything is a trade off. If you really want a competitive machine and use less than 180 HP in my opinion you need to look at a monoplane. Biplanes, I love them and I own 2 of them, are inherently high drag and need more HP to make them competitive.
It's a shame but dollars have made competition out of the reach of the normal pilot. Back in the early 50's the most popular homebuilt aerobatic aircraft, the pitts special, usually had 125 to 150hp under the cowl.
Good luck on your search.
Jim C
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Jim Clark, 8KS8 Prairie Cottage Airport
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RW_Black_one



Joined: 16 Sep 2007
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

THANX Jim,

I believe you got an Eagle?

The funny thing is - if you got one - a friend of me got one too. And it was the discussion with him, while I write here. (The Eagle needs at least 260+HP, what I guess - his got 200+HP, a boring thing if you like to go with 2)

The Pitts climbs with 180 HP around 1500 fpm, what doesn't make any sense, even in sportmens catagory. Another friend got at first a S 2A, sold it and bought a S 1 SS now he goes with Lasers 200 (200 HP) with a little chance at 2000 fpm.

One question:
Is it really the drag - are you sure?
I think it's how many pounds per square feet it must carry in comparison with the profile ...

Best Regards

Ronald
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flinthillsjim



Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 55
Location: Kansas, Chapman (8KS8)

PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ronald - The two biplanes are a recent rebuild of a 1997 Starduster II SA300 with a Franklin 220 hp 350 cubic inch displacement 6 cylinder. The other is a 1939 Waco EGC-8 5 passenger cabin biplane with a Wright R760 350 HP radial engine.

My starduster is a joy to fly but it will never see 1500 fpm climb rates.

Drag on biplanes is an issue that can only be overcome with horsepower. Look at the Red Bull racing extra 300's. No biplane with comparable horsepower can keep up with monoplane.

I still love biplanes!
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Jim Clark, 8KS8 Prairie Cottage Airport
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RW_Black_one



Joined: 16 Sep 2007
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Jim,

I still know that any kind of Biplane got a chance at "modern" worlds air-race.

YOU GOT A WACO? I LOVE IT!!!

The thing what I was thinking about have been written in Starduster's Magazin:

April 1978: (page 3 ff)
"... Half the weight gives us twice the rate of climb..."

I was thinking to build a Acro- or Starduster, but the thing is: It still needs around 260 HP, if you want to go with two persons. (non-acrobatic, something like a IO-540 A1B) Same thing with the Skybolt what needs 260-300 HP. The reason for the Skybolt is: It's a fat Lady who likes power, you can put 360+HP in - she like more...

If you like historic Biplanes, I can send you some really phantastic photos of restauration by Email of a famos FW 44 (Stieglitz), which was the Star of (maybe you know this film, "Quax der Bruchpilot" with Heinz Rühmann as Quax) an old b/w film. It's not ready to fly now, a lot of little things are in work, but it is the best workmanship I ever seen. For example: the screws are new, but build in 1942(with papers for the screws)... and so on.(The plane is not for sale - even not for more then a 1.000.000 $)

Best Regards

Ronald
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Craig



Joined: 09 Apr 2007
Posts: 4
Location: Palm Beach Gardens, FL

PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 9:45 am    Post subject: Bipes Reply with quote

Ronald -
There are several biplanes that do reasonably well on lower horse-power engines.
A very nice two-seater is the AcroSport II. It is fairly inexpensive to build, and does well on an engine such as the O-290 and O-320 series.
A lighter one, but not too aerobatic, is the Fisher Celebrity - flys very well, abeit slowly, with a C-85 or O-200. This one is all wood, easy to build.

Good luck in your quest!
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Craig
NX96CW
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